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	<title>Comments on: Immigrants and native wages</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.ambrosini.us/wordpress/2010/05/immigrants-and-native-wages/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.ambrosini.us/wordpress/2010/05/immigrants-and-native-wages/</link>
	<description>Sharpening my knife</description>
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		<title>By: pushmedia1</title>
		<link>http://www.ambrosini.us/wordpress/2010/05/immigrants-and-native-wages/comment-page-1/#comment-9732</link>
		<dc:creator>pushmedia1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jun 2010 16:33:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ambrosini.us/wordpress/?p=1578#comment-9732</guid>
		<description>RE complementarity.  Do you have your adjectives backwards?

Are there data on which occupations illegals work in?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RE complementarity.  Do you have your adjectives backwards?</p>
<p>Are there data on which occupations illegals work in?</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Wright</title>
		<link>http://www.ambrosini.us/wordpress/2010/05/immigrants-and-native-wages/comment-page-1/#comment-9724</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Wright</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jun 2010 21:07:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ambrosini.us/wordpress/?p=1578#comment-9724</guid>
		<description>A very delayed response here: yes that is what Ottaviano, Peri, Wright is about, in part.

A thought on the &#039;86 immigration reforms, which have got me a bit confused now. Clearly wages should rise for the formerly undocumented workers, since they can no longer be discriminated against so easily. As for lower-skilled native workers, it must simply come down to the elasticity of substitution between them and the formerly undocumented. If these two groups were complementary then higher wages for undocumented would result in *lower* wages for natives. But seemingly they are strong substitutes so increased wages for one group raises the wage of the other.

Note that this is a bit in opposition to work suggesting that wages should not fall due to immigration because of complementarities between natives and immigrants, as possibly suggested in the comment above from lark. So I&#039;m a bit stumped on this still, I guess. Your explanation is interesting, except that I&#039;m a bit unsure of the idea that natives are competing to work in the fields of the central valley, or in food processing plants in laredo, texas. Perhaps the latter is reasonable actually. Sounds like room for a paper here in any case...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A very delayed response here: yes that is what Ottaviano, Peri, Wright is about, in part.</p>
<p>A thought on the &#8216;86 immigration reforms, which have got me a bit confused now. Clearly wages should rise for the formerly undocumented workers, since they can no longer be discriminated against so easily. As for lower-skilled native workers, it must simply come down to the elasticity of substitution between them and the formerly undocumented. If these two groups were complementary then higher wages for undocumented would result in *lower* wages for natives. But seemingly they are strong substitutes so increased wages for one group raises the wage of the other.</p>
<p>Note that this is a bit in opposition to work suggesting that wages should not fall due to immigration because of complementarities between natives and immigrants, as possibly suggested in the comment above from lark. So I&#8217;m a bit stumped on this still, I guess. Your explanation is interesting, except that I&#8217;m a bit unsure of the idea that natives are competing to work in the fields of the central valley, or in food processing plants in laredo, texas. Perhaps the latter is reasonable actually. Sounds like room for a paper here in any case&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: pushmedia1</title>
		<link>http://www.ambrosini.us/wordpress/2010/05/immigrants-and-native-wages/comment-page-1/#comment-9686</link>
		<dc:creator>pushmedia1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 May 2010 05:07:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ambrosini.us/wordpress/?p=1578#comment-9686</guid>
		<description>Nice catch.  I&#039;m not familiar with the studies that author is referring to, but here&#039;s my guess:  The way to make those two facts compatible is to think about how natives and immigrants compete with each other in the labor market.  Without reform, illegals would choose to work in a limited number of jobs because they may be afraid of being caught if they were in a job with too much exposure.  Because there was so much supply in those few jobs, this would depress wages by a lot.  I&#039;m guessing those same jobs are where many low skill natives were trying to get too.  After reform, immigrants felt more comfortable working in other jobs, reducing the competitive pressure on natives (and increasing wages).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice catch.  I&#8217;m not familiar with the studies that author is referring to, but here&#8217;s my guess:  The way to make those two facts compatible is to think about how natives and immigrants compete with each other in the labor market.  Without reform, illegals would choose to work in a limited number of jobs because they may be afraid of being caught if they were in a job with too much exposure.  Because there was so much supply in those few jobs, this would depress wages by a lot.  I&#8217;m guessing those same jobs are where many low skill natives were trying to get too.  After reform, immigrants felt more comfortable working in other jobs, reducing the competitive pressure on natives (and increasing wages).</p>
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		<title>By: lark</title>
		<link>http://www.ambrosini.us/wordpress/2010/05/immigrants-and-native-wages/comment-page-1/#comment-9682</link>
		<dc:creator>lark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 May 2010 02:11:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ambrosini.us/wordpress/?p=1578#comment-9682</guid>
		<description>This is from http://ndn.org/blog/2010/05/economics-immigration-are-not-what-you-think

&quot;Following the 1986 immigration reforms, for example, previously-undocumented immigrants experienced big pay boosts – as much as 15 or 20 percent –  and immigrants who already had legal status saw hefty wage gains, too. But the reforms also led to higher wages for lower-skilled native-born Americans. &quot;

This writer argues that immigration reform is good because it raises wages for the lowest tier of the workforce. He also argues that immigration does not lower wages. 

How are those things compatible?
If immigration does not lower wages, immigration reform should not raise wages.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is from <a href="http://ndn.org/blog/2010/05/economics-immigration-are-not-what-you-think" rel="nofollow">http://ndn.org/blog/2010/05/economics-immigration-are-not-what-you-think</a></p>
<p>&#8220;Following the 1986 immigration reforms, for example, previously-undocumented immigrants experienced big pay boosts – as much as 15 or 20 percent –  and immigrants who already had legal status saw hefty wage gains, too. But the reforms also led to higher wages for lower-skilled native-born Americans. &#8221;</p>
<p>This writer argues that immigration reform is good because it raises wages for the lowest tier of the workforce. He also argues that immigration does not lower wages. </p>
<p>How are those things compatible?<br />
If immigration does not lower wages, immigration reform should not raise wages.</p>
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		<title>By: The Ambrosini Critique &#124; The Incidental Economist</title>
		<link>http://www.ambrosini.us/wordpress/2010/05/immigrants-and-native-wages/comment-page-1/#comment-9680</link>
		<dc:creator>The Ambrosini Critique &#124; The Incidental Economist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 May 2010 00:09:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ambrosini.us/wordpress/?p=1578#comment-9680</guid>
		<description>[...] on the topic. Plus, I automatically have high regard for anyone who writes something like the following: [W]e want to be sure that there is not something that makes a particular area or job a more [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] on the topic. Plus, I automatically have high regard for anyone who writes something like the following: [W]e want to be sure that there is not something that makes a particular area or job a more [...]</p>
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		<title>By: pushmedia1</title>
		<link>http://www.ambrosini.us/wordpress/2010/05/immigrants-and-native-wages/comment-page-1/#comment-9678</link>
		<dc:creator>pushmedia1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 May 2010 16:42:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ambrosini.us/wordpress/?p=1578#comment-9678</guid>
		<description>Is your paper with Peri about this channel?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is your paper with Peri about this channel?</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Wright</title>
		<link>http://www.ambrosini.us/wordpress/2010/05/immigrants-and-native-wages/comment-page-1/#comment-9677</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Wright</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 May 2010 01:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ambrosini.us/wordpress/?p=1578#comment-9677</guid>
		<description>Hey Will,

Just ran into this, a very nice summary of the literature. Since I also find these issues fascinating I thought I&#039;d add another channel to the potential &quot;zero correlation&quot; culprits. If immigrants are cheaper than natives then there is a very straightforward &quot;productivity effect&quot;. I.e., firms can produce the same output with fewer inputs. As a result, firms that hire more immigrants will do relatively better and will expand output more. This drives up demand for all workers.

Obviously there are many caveats in general equilibrium, but I like this story and have found evidence for it. This story comes from the offshoring literature and makes me think, as usual, there&#039;s a lot to be gained from comparing stories across the literature.

-Greg</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Will,</p>
<p>Just ran into this, a very nice summary of the literature. Since I also find these issues fascinating I thought I&#8217;d add another channel to the potential &#8220;zero correlation&#8221; culprits. If immigrants are cheaper than natives then there is a very straightforward &#8220;productivity effect&#8221;. I.e., firms can produce the same output with fewer inputs. As a result, firms that hire more immigrants will do relatively better and will expand output more. This drives up demand for all workers.</p>
<p>Obviously there are many caveats in general equilibrium, but I like this story and have found evidence for it. This story comes from the offshoring literature and makes me think, as usual, there&#8217;s a lot to be gained from comparing stories across the literature.</p>
<p>-Greg</p>
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